Moving to Vodafone!

[a_ukboy]

Ok, so have an unlocked *officially* iphone and moved from o2 to orange, all was well for a few weeks and started to get coverage issues, now the reason i'm leaving Orange is cause my issues where never solved, and because im on the sim only deal i get put through to India :mad: Not that i have nothing against the guys over there but i'm sure all the ex and current 3 customers will know that the india call centre staff have a script, and having something faulty just aint in the script..

So today i have ordered a sim only deal with vodafone, good deals they have at the moment, plus i have a mate who works in Vodafone IT dept (and will get me 30% discount) he tells me he will be my vodafone bitch if i need any technical help :rolleyes:

So any peeps have any input on Vodafone, as i'm a Voda virgin...

And before i ask my mate is there any way of getting text delivery reports on the Voda network?

[DBMandrake]

Just curious what sort of coverage issues did you have with Orange ?

Not getting 3G, or not getting any signal at all ?

In going from Orange to Vodafone you'll probably get better 2G coverage, but a lot worse 3G coverage, as Vodafone are second to last in 3G coverage...

[a_ukboy]

Just curious what sort of coverage issues did you have with Orange ?

Not getting 3G, or not getting any signal at all ?

In going from Orange to Vodafone you'll probably get better 2G coverage, but a lot worse 3G coverage, as Vodafone are second to last in 3G coverage...

Mine was i was getting a good signal, but alot of calls going straight to voicemail, and the text notification for missed calls was taking 24 to 48 hrs to come through, and they said they thought the issue was with sim only deals they send out a 2g sim card, then it gets activated for 3g.. they do 3g sim cards but was unwilling to send one the decided the problem is the phone and should contact Apple, Apple said the phones fine and its a network issue, so goodbye Orange

[DBMandrake]

Ok well you have a few issues at play here.

First of all, a 2G SIM cannot be "activated" for 3G - whoever told you that was talking a load of rubbish. Also, Orange is the only network who still sell 2G only SIM's by default unless you ask for a 3G SIM.

I was bitten by this when I bought a Pay&Go one over the counter and didn't realise it wasn't a 3G SIM until I got home and tried it - no 3G coverage anywhere. I had to go back and buy a 3G SIM.

Secondly, calls going to voicemail when you have a signal is not confined only to Orange, but happens on ALL the UK networks when you are connected on 2G if a data session is active.

Because you only had a 2G Orange SIM in your phone, you will have been stuck on 2G all the time, which means any time you are using data on the phone, you will get missed calls. This includes web browsing, checking email, using the weather app, anything that accesses data, including automated background email checks and push notification messages.

You will get the exact same problem with Vodafone, and because Vodafone's 3G coverage is lousy, you will get it a lot more often with Vodafone, because when you are on 3G the phone can receive calls and texts while a data session is active, and on Orange you will be on 3G in far more locations. (With the right SIM)

Apple is strictly correct when they say it's the networks fault - but what they didn't tell you was that currently all UK networks have this issue when in 2G coverage, and it's something to be aware of with a data-using Smartphone.

For a more detailed discussion about the issue, see my posting here:

http://www.3g.co.uk/3GForum/showthread.php?t=99220

[Ben]

he tells me he will be my vodafone bitch
Sounds good! =D

As for Vodafone 3G coverage being lousy... I know the OFCOM maps didn't look great, but surely it's not just me that finds the reality to be much better? I find 3G on Vodafone in most places, and most importantly where it exists it works and is very quick.

A lot of it comes down to local geographies anyway. The coverage reality is different for all of us - given that most of us spend the majority of our time in two or three postcodes the national coverage 'picture' really has little meaning.

[a_ukboy]

Ok well you have a few issues at play here.

First of all, a 2G SIM cannot be "activated" for 3G - whoever told you that was talking a load of rubbish. Also, Orange is the only network who still sell 2G only SIM's by default unless you ask for a 3G SIM.

I was bitten by this when I bought a Pay&Go one over the counter and didn't realise it wasn't a 3G SIM until I got home and tried it - no 3G coverage anywhere. I had to go back and buy a 3G SIM.

Secondly, calls going to voicemail when you have a signal is not confined only to Orange, but happens on ALL the UK networks when you are connected on 2G if a data session is active.

Because you only had a 2G Orange SIM in your phone, you will have been stuck on 2G all the time, which means any time you are using data on the phone, you will get missed calls. This includes web browsing, checking email, using the weather app, anything that accesses data, including automated background email checks and push notification messages.

You will get the exact same problem with Vodafone, and because Vodafone's 3G coverage is lousy, you will get it a lot more often with Vodafone, because when you are on 3G the phone can receive calls and texts while a data session is active, and on Orange you will be on 3G in far more locations. (With the right SIM)

Apple is strictly correct when they say it's the networks fault - but what they didn't tell you was that currently all UK networks have this issue when in 2G coverage, and it's something to be aware of with a data-using Smartphone.

For a more detailed discussion about the issue, see my posting here:

http://www.3g.co.uk/3GForum/showthread.php?t=99220

I was getting a 3G signal, and mainly had a constant 3G signal, the calls going straight to voicemail would mostly happen when on 3G, i got told to keep my phone locked to 2g to help reduce the problem, but i have a iphone 3g so don't want to keep it locked to 2g..

[3GScottishUser]

Bear in mind that the deal between Telefonica and Vodafone means that over the next couple of years both companies (02 + Vodafone) will share transmission sites in Europe.

So be prepared for some changes as they consolodate their transmission sites.

[Ben]

I was getting a 3G signal, and mainly had a constant 3G signal, the calls going straight to voicemail would mostly happen when on 3G, i got told to keep my phone locked to 2g to help reduce the problem, but i have a iphone 3g so don't want to keep it locked to 2g..
Calls going to voicemail on Orange 3G used to happen to me and someone I know ALL THE DAMN TIME.

It's the single most irritating fault on Orange's network, IMHO. O2's 'Absent Subscriber' fault is much more subtle but also very annoying. I'm not aware of any such faults on Vodafone.

[a_ukboy]

Calls going to voicemail on Orange 3G used to happen to me and someone I know ALL THE DAMN TIME.

It's the single most irritating fault on Orange's network, IMHO. O2's 'Absent Subscriber' fault is much more subtle but also very annoying. I'm not aware of any such faults on Vodafone.

What was annoying is that my mate who's also on Orange with an Iphone who he got from Orange has been having no problems whatsoever, and he's in IT and his phone rings all the time, he has no issuse with missed calls and the alerts.. i had very similar issues while on o2, so makes me wonder, is it my iphone or the networks

[DBMandrake]

Ok well if missed calls were happening on 3G it's not the issue I was describing, but bear in mind what I say does apply whenever you are connected on 2G (GPRS or EDGE) with all the networks.... but on 3G it should never happen - that is a network fault if it does.

I can't say I've used Orange enough to notice missed incoming calls, my primary iPhone/number is with 3, and I've never had a missed call with them on 3G that I'm aware of. Glad I'm not on Orange then :)

What is the "absent subscriber" problem on O2 you mention ? O2's network seems pretty shocking all around, my gf's iPhone was on O2 for a year and she had constant problems with poor coverage, poor call quality, hardly ever getting 3G, having the phone frequently flipping back and forth between GPRS and 3G while the signal was strong and the phone was stationary, frequent slow or no data...and a signficant number of "never rang but missed call while in coverage" that a lot of people report. Now her iPhone is on 3 she's had none of those problems. I really do think a lot of "iPhone problems" are in fact the networks...

[DBMandrake]

As for Vodafone 3G coverage being lousy... I know the OFCOM maps didn't look great, but surely it's not just me that finds the reality to be much better? I find 3G on Vodafone in most places, and most importantly where it exists it works and is very quick.

A lot of it comes down to local geographies anyway. The coverage reality is different for all of us - given that most of us spend the majority of our time in two or three postcodes the national coverage 'picture' really has little meaning.
Quite true. If you have good coverage at home, work, and the places in between, you won't notice if there are gaping holes in coverage elsewhere in the country.

Having said that, I believe the relative differences shown by the ofcom maps are correct, in my experience. In these parts in Central Scotland / Greater Glasgow area Vodafone's 3G coverage is very sparse. Enough that it's a surprise to me when I do see 3G, while with Orange and 3 it's a surprise when I don't see 3G.

Sitting in my lounge at home, I only get 2 bars of GPRS on Vodafone, so I guess I'm in one of their holes :D Meanwhile 5 bars of 3G on Orange, 3, and T-Mobile. O2 is iffy and can't make up it's mind whether it wants to be 3G or not.

While Vodafone's 3G might work well where it exists, I still think they are second to last in terms of total 3G coverage, with huge swaths of populated areas without 3G coverage, and with GPRS the only fallback. (Compared to EDGE/GPRS fallback on Orange, and 3 via Orange roaming)

[Ben]

What is the "absent subscriber" problem on O2 you mention ? O2's network seems pretty shocking all around, my gf's iPhone was on O2 for a year and she had constant problems with poor coverage, poor call quality, hardly ever getting 3G, having the phone frequently flipping back and forth between GPRS and 3G while the signal was strong and the phone was stationary, frequent slow or no data...and a signficant number of "never rang but missed call while in coverage" that a lot of people report. Now her iPhone is on 3 she's had none of those problems. I really do think a lot of "iPhone problems" are in fact the networks...
Indeed, it results in some missed calls while in coverage but also very delayed text messages.

For some reason O2 subscribers sometimes 'drop off (https://talk3g.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7110)' the network, being recorded as 'Absent Subscriber' in the Home Location Register (HLR). As I'm able to query the network's HLRs it's very easy to see this in action, but 99% of people would have no idea it's going on because their handset still displays coverage as normal. As the subscriber is technically absent from the network text messages go into retry and calls often fail to get through. Even making an outbound call can fail sometimes, or take an age to connect.

I didn't have the pleasure of experiencing the fault first hand until I got the iPhone. It doesn't happen often, but when it does it's infuriating. I reported it several times but was unable to speak with anyone who had sufficient knowledge at O2 to file a proper report.

EDIT: Btw, Vodafone have also rolled out some EDGE now.

[DBMandrake]

Interesting. So I guess you have some kind of inside access to be able to query the HLR ?

Is absent subscriber a different state than if the phone is logged off the network correctly by going into airplane mode ?

Also I was wondering, if you haven't seen the problem before until the iPhone, is it possible that the iPhone is partly to blame - eg some kind of clash between the way the iPhone baseband works, and the configuration of O2's network ?

Now I think back, I did experience a similar problem on Vodafone New Zealand with my iPhone 3G in October 2008, (firmware 2.1 I think) where the phone would sometimes be sitting with full 3G signal and was able to make outgoing calls, but intermittently, incoming calls would not ring, and go straight to voicemail after about 10 seconds of silence - turning of 3G "fixed" the problem.

From what I remember the problem was intermittent and lasted only a few weeks before it went away, but I don't remember whether I upgraded the firmware or whether something must have been done to the network to fix it...

[Hands0n]

I have continually suffered the "absent subscriber" problem on O2's network - and not only with an iPhone, so it really is nothing to do with the specific handset.

How it appears is that the handset registers however many bars of signal in the area you are in. Text messages from others do not get to you promptly. Calls go directly to Answerphone if it is set up to do so. But there is absolutely no tell-tale signal that you are in this state of limbo.

The only way to get back in service is to either make a call or send an SMS message. An indication that you have been in that state is that call setup, the time until ringtone is heard, can take anything up to a full minute (or more).

This condition is a right pain in the proverbial - if anyone depends upon their mobile or, worse, someone depends upon you being contactable it makes for a potentially dangerous situation. I know that people should not rely upon a mobile phone for life and death, but in this day and age that is a matter of fact. The network operators have simply got to up their game.

[Ben]

@DBMandrake - I only witnessed it first hand with the iPhone because that was my first O2-crippled handset. I get the pleasure of witnessing the issue affecting other people almost every day in my work (text messaging). It's not handset specific.

A handset switched off or without coverage (or, indeed, with radio disabled) will also be recorded as Absent Subscriber in the HLR. So it's as if O2 believes that one of these scenarios has taken place.

[DBMandrake]

One thing that occurs to me - if it happens when the phone is idle and not actively polling the network, is it only an outgoing call or sms that will "wake" the connection, but will data access such as web browsing kick it into life again as well ? And is it only happening on 3G ?

What happens if push notifications and/or email is enabled, does that kick it back into life periodically ?

[Ben]

2G and 3G afaik. Regular data usage may well keep the handset active on the network, but I was in WiFi a lot of the time. I did, however, disable WiFi during a particularly bad 48 hours once with no improvement, making a call or sending a text was the only way for me to get back online and typically the first call or text failed.

It makes sense logically that handsets more active on the network would be less susceptible to the problem. Unfortunately I have no personal experience to back this up, so it's just a theory; albeit a good one.

[DBMandrake]

Secondly, calls going to voicemail when you have a signal is not confined only to Orange, but happens on ALL the UK networks when you are connected on 2G if a data session is active.

You will get the exact same problem with Vodafone, and because Vodafone's 3G coverage is lousy, you will get it a lot more often with Vodafone, because when you are on 3G the phone can receive calls and texts while a data session is active, and on Orange you will be on 3G in far more locations. (With the right SIM)

Apple is strictly correct when they say it's the networks fault - but what they didn't tell you was that currently all UK networks have this issue when in 2G coverage, and it's something to be aware of with a data-using Smartphone.

Well I have some humble pie to eat before all you Vodafone fans :D

It seems that Vodafone has made a change to their network which prevents an active 2G data session from causing all incoming calls to be sent straight to voicemail without ringing. Prior to this all UK networks suffered this issue on 2G.

A change was first noticed in a discussion in the thread below, which prompted me to go back and retest all the networks:

http://www.3g.co.uk/3GForum/showthread.php?t=99775

For those that don't want to click on the link, the summary is that with Vodafone if you are accessing data on 2G and an incoming call occurs, the data session will be aborted and the call will come through. As well as this, incoming SMS messages can come through at the same time as a data session, without evening interrupting the data session.

ALL the other networks currently cannot do this - calls go directly to voicemail if 2G data is in use, and SMS messages are delayed until some time after the data session is finished.

Big thumbs up to Vodafone on this change, as this is a major cause of missed calls with Smartphones, and I hope to see the other networks follow suit.... :)