Is Windows Phone WP7.5 (Mango) up with iOS and Android?

[Hands0n]

In reviewing the HTC Titan this author has been particularly scathing about the WP7.5 OS in terms of its functionality and usability. Similar critique was later raised by another reviewer of the Nokia Lumia 800.

Article Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/nov/09/htc-titan-mango-windows-phone-review


Even so, there's still a few usability gotchas. Look at that picture of the People hub feed. Now, you want to contribute something? OK – what do you press? (Hint: it's not a hidden menu at the bottom of the screen – that just brings up "Refresh" and "Settings".)

Give up yet? It's obvious, isn't it?

You don't use that screen. You swipe left to the "All" page, where you'll find your profile pic (from Facebook, in my case, rather than Twitter; I've no idea why) and the latest thing you said on whichever network.

OK, now what do you press to contribute your thoughts to the world? No, it isn't the + button at the bottom – that gives you the options to create a New Contact or New Group. (We'll come on to the anguished story of why it says "Family" twice later.)

Puzzling, isn't it? How can you contribute to all these social networks that are pouring past? Where's the icon that implies "BEGIN WRITING"?

Give up? Oh, come on, it's obvious – you press your last message, and that brings up a screen where you can post a message, check in or set your chat status.

Seriously, Microsoft UI designers? This is how in our people-oriented system we're meant to contribute to the flow of thinking–- by swiping away from the updates, then prodding what we've already created and then choosing one of three options?

Once more: it's great to start from the precept of "challenge preconceptions", but at some point you have to accept when you're making things more rather than less complex, worse rather than better.

On iOS or Android, you can post a message on Twitter (using the big friendly "Pen and Pad" icon)

And then in a recent review of the Nokia Lumia the author had this to say about usability of the Music app:

The music app, based on Zune, is hilarious. To understand why, first compare it with the iPod UI, which is about as basic as you can make it: artists contain albums which contain songs. Build a list of songs and it will play them in turn or randomly. There is no flair or sophistication contained within.

OK. In one of my favourite Father Ted episodes - Think Fast, Father Ted, the DJ only brings one record (Ghost Town by The Specials). That's what the Zune app is like. If you own one 7in single, you are absolutely fine.

Zune, rather than just blithely ripping off Apple's design, makes life as hard as possible. Want to play all albums by a given artist? Firstly, wait several days while your unconscious works out how to do it. Google on and off during that period and find nothing that works. Then eventually, half by accident, click on the little arrow icon next to the artist (as opposed to by the name of the artist. Clicking the name of the artist, incidentally, shows you all the albums by that artist.)

Similarly, you want to play everything in the collection at random? Simple - just swipe three times and click twice and you're golden! (That one Google did help me with. Note: If you're having to RTFM to use a music player, the music player design team is doing it wrong.)

Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2011/dec/30/nokia-lumia-800-goodbye

Now I know these are both Guardian articles, and I am not a reader of that rag, but what is written is empirical and demonstrable so is completely valid.

Eleven months ago, when I tried out WP7 on the Samsung Omnia 7, I didn't get too far into the social media use of the OS. At that time I was struggling with certain aspects of the UI itself, such as the placement of the irrevocable left-arrow button in message creation that deleted your message (it didn't matter which app you were using, hit that soft button and the message was lost forever). The button was ridiculously placed immediately above the spacebar which made it even easier to hit in error! A massive UI design fail that I highlighted back then.

Reading this review, and others, does not fill me with positive anticipation about the updated WP7 OS. It does suggest that Microsoft's software designers have missed the opportunity for human centric design as led by Apple (for instance). Instead, the engineers appear to have chosen a labyrinthine approach that enslaves rather than empowers a user. Why? Is it just to be deliberately different to iOS and Android? There would be nothing wrong in that if what they delivered was better, by any definition of that particular word. But the review suggests quite the opposite.

The consumer technology industry is at a fork in the road, like never before, in terms of design. Humanised design, as demonstrated by Apple for one, is the way forward. Forcing the consumer to bend to the technology to do even the simple things is not. And the average Joe has already learned this, hence the gravitation to what appear to be simpler to use devices, that in reality do an awful lot of work behind the scenes. Apple's portable technology and the ecosystem that is evolving to support it, mobile networks [in this country at least] becoming more affordable for data, seamlessness and ease of use being king. Android's large group of manufacturers is taking an identical approach using their own technology.

Microsoft have all of the building blocks but seems to have trouble building in coherence and simplicity of use. At heart it remains a technology company selling to consumers. But still it seems to not truly understand how humans operate. And that may ultimately seal their fate.

It is not all their own game anymore.

[hecatae]

do you watch The Phones Show by www.stevelitchfield.com ?

It's on youtube, and the WP7 device reviews have got a similar conclusion

[miffed]

Absolutely ! I remember when I got the HD7 I was a little annoyed by the way everything seemed so integrated , and then when Mango was announced they were selling the fact that they were taking this integration further as a good thing ! I have to say I hate it.
At first I loved the UI , and for simple things like SMS and email it is pretty cool ! it is certainly slick and looks good - but when you actually try and do stuff , you find yourself going "......eh ?"
It annoys me that people I have emailed once are mixed up with my contacts , as are my Facebook friends , ...as are their photos ! - it annoys me that when I try to search for an app I am bombarded with results for songs etc.

I still have a soft spot for WP , but it really does feel at times that MS have gone out of their way to make things as difficult to do as possible !

[Hands0n]

do you watch The Phones Show by www.stevelitchfield.com ?

It's on youtube, and the WP7 device reviews have got a similar conclusion

I never, ever, watch Steve Litchfield. His uncontained bias and lack of objectiveness more than irritates me. I'm surprised he didn't change his name by deed poll to Nokiafield :)

Seriously, the guy gets my goat.

Have you a very specific link? At this season of goodwill to all men I really should minimise my exposure to him ...

[miffed]

LOL , I have to admit I stopped taking him seriously when, in a head to head between a Nokia and a Motorala Droid (I think it was) he marked down the Droid for having a Xenon flash ! and praised the Nokias LED, as it could be used as a torch :D Talk about desperate !

[Hands0n]

Okay, I've sat through the Nokia Lumia 800 video review by Mr Litchfield. It was show number 156, here --> http://www.stevelitchfield.com/sshow/ss156.html

The problem with these reviews is that they're pretty much all about hardware, he went on about the polycarbonate case for what felt like eons. By comparison mere nanoseconds were spent on the OS and even less on usability other than to show how flickable the screen and panels were.

Returning to topic :) By very great contrast the Guardian's written reviews of the Lumia 800 and the HTC Titan spent greater time on the OS, the UI and the applications. And that is where its at for most of us. I know that the physicality of my devices falls away into the background as my mind focusses on what it is I am trying to do. Every single physical difficulty encountered (mechanical, OS or UI) becomes a distraction, an irritation, that serves to undermine the experience. As technically adept as I may be, I do not expect to have to exercise anything more than a modicum of attention to how I am doing what I am doing.

Let me offer an analogy. As an able bodied person none of us have to think and work out how to walk in any direction. We simply think of where we want to be and the rest is completely autonomous activity. Now allow me for a moment to impact you by placing various objects in your way, of varying sizes, heights, weights etc. All of a sudden that simple, autonomous, activity becomes something of a challenge while you have to work your way through the inconvenient maze. What may have previously been an enjoyable or engaging activity is now peppered with distraction and you probably don't want to do that anymore. A bit like the Guardian reviewer who waited for the iPad to become available rather than use his Lumia 800 to send a message or look something up. Ridiculous.

In using iOS and Android interchangeably, daily, I have developed a notion of which is easiest to use for a particular task. My ideal OS would be the embodiment of the two in a single device (are you listening Microsoft?). From what I've read and experienced so far, Windows Phone 7.5 is somewhat lost in the wilderness. And that appears to be reflected in its sales, whether Nokia or one of the other manufacturers.

[blush]

I have been sodding about trying to get the calendar from Outlook onto my Lumia 800 now for about four days on and off Danny. On my iphone it's just a simple sync in itunes....done. With the Nokia I looked at Zune which is horrible and I couldnt find the option there and eventually I downloaded the outlook hotmail connector which lets you view your windows live celendar in outlook but wont let you sync the other way from outlook to live.com account. After much messing about I donwloaded some third party software which kind of worked, I now have the birthdays from my outlook calendar on my phone but that is it. None of the appointments are on the phone but can be seen on the live.com calendar and I have synced the phone several times.

Such a seemingly simple task has been a nightmare and i'm very close to formatting the phone and putting it back in the box. Nokia may as well sell up now.

The real shame is the hardware looks and feels great but the OS is half finished and not very logical.

[Ben]

Wow, this is the most negativity I'm yet to encounter about Windows Phone 7.5... all the analysts are pitching the platform as being massive within a few years - what went wrong, did none of them actually use it first?

I really need to play with a Lumia 800. I'll endeavour to find a working demo unit next time I'm on the highstreet.

[Hands0n]

Ben - You'd get the same experience with any WP7.5 (Mango) phone, so don't limit to the Lumia :) I think that the negativity is coming about through a lifting of the nice shiny hood that is the Lumia 800. Notice in the media that almost none of the other devices gets a mention! All eyes are on Nokia, a gross mistake by the pundits with too narrow a focus. Watch the Steve Litchfield video and you'll see graphically what I mean. He, as with 99.9% of the others, has missed the all too important usability assessment and gone instead for superficial aspects only.

Mark, that is utter madness from Microsoft! Contacts, Mail and Calendar are core applications for a smartphone user. And by all accounts we can wait very many months for Tango and then nothing until 4Q/2012 for their "big announcement" of WP for the masses. There'll be no masses by then ...

I cannot believe I am witnessing them getting this so very wrong in 2012 of all times in history!

[blush]

Well I'm done, phone back in the box and live.com account deleted. I can't have a separate phone for my calendar for my diary, may has well have a paper diary. For general web browsing, twitter, Facebook and email the Nokia Lumia 800 is good but most other things a chore. There seems to be a bug where the data connection on 3G shows connected but all apps say there is no connection. This was with both a three and O2 sim.

I keep trying to swipe upwards to remove the key lock on the iPhone now, Win 7.5 is haunting me!

[Hands0n]

I keep trying to swipe upwards to remove the key lock on the iPhone now, Win 7.5 is haunting me!

It took me over a week to recover from using a BlackBerry Bold 9700 for 8 weeks earlier this year, as an experiment. :)

One of the Guardian reviewers also spotted the same connectvity problem with the Lumia 800 (or is it WP7.5 in general?, I'll find out with the Jil Sander next week).

So lets summarise so far ... We have a flagship WP7.5 smartphone expected to revive Nokia's position that;

Cannot maintain a connection for its apps that rely on connectivity
Cannot adequately sync Calendar dates to cloud, Exchange and other devices
Has a Music app that requires extensive Google reading to work out how to use
Has a social media app that is convoluted to use, does not update, and does not show user icons

Have I missed anything?

It doesn't get better, does it.

[blush]

It doesn't get better, does it.

Yes when you turn it off and put it back in the box. A great sense of relief!

[miffed]

Wow, this is the most negativity I'm yet to encounter about Windows Phone 7.5... all the analysts are pitching the platform as being massive within a few years - what went wrong, did none of them actually use it first?

I really need to play with a Lumia 800. I'll endeavour to find a working demo unit next time I'm on the highstreet.


I have an explanation for this , at least in terms of my own experiences anyway.

WM7 / 7.5 is great to play with , it does the eye candy thing , the menu's scroll when you flick them , the font's are pretty on the black screen etc. All the while I used it as a second phone it was great fun ! - but then when I tried to use it as a main device (i.e.prolonged use with no alternatives at hand) you suddenly realise what a pain in the backside WP is , and when you get to this stage all the eye candy in the world doesn't make up for the frustration of trying to operate a quirky UI !

Great to play with, horrible to use & rely on IMO

[miffed]

In WP7's defence , I have found it pretty flawless WRT Syncing with Google Services - some will have you believe you have to "hack" the phone to get multiple Google calenders , but I don't think that's really fair, it is simply the way Google Sync works and you need the same "hack" on any other mobile device to get it to work.

So in Nokia's case , that is one improvement over Symbian !

[hecatae]

The 800 is not the flagship though, the Lumia 900 is.

it's N95 and N95 8gb all over again, 6230 to 6230i, 7250 to 7250i, 6630 to 6680 to N70.

Sadly it doesnt matter what the hardware is if the underlying OS is rubbish

[Hands0n]

I see what you're saying. But in my opinion the Lumia 800 is the flagship because that is the top end Nokia that I can walk out of a store with. The 900, on the other hand, is an intention, nothing more, until it arrives on the shelves.

But it is down to the OS, and unless Tango is a significant improvement in the UI design, which is unlikely, it will be a software albatross for Nokia.

[gorilla]

Why I'm not getting either a Nokia or a windows phone anytime soon.

I like android; it does everything I need it to. It can be complicated, but then again it can be very straight forward. It can be just a phone and it can be a real multitasking powerhouse.
There are a range of handsets to choose from and a variety of manufacturers producing the hardware. It's this variation that challenges app developers, but where would we be without challenges?

Maybe I'll get the next iPhone. I'm all set to go with my iTunes account, I already own an iPad, so the transition will be seamless.

So why then, given the choice I already have between android and iOS would I want to jump into yet another ecosystem? I've not used a windows phone, but from what I've seen there is nothing that really interests me and it actually looks a bit naff to me.
Have you actually seen a Nokia phone lately? They are ugly. (Let's not forget that I don't like the iPhone 4 / 4s, so I have a unique sense of taste!)

In a phone shop stacked up against an iPhone, samsung's, HTC's and even an LG, nokia's look ordinary.

People I talk to are not talking about nokia's. More and more people tell me they have an android phone before they tell me it's a HTC desire. Android has reached that saturation point when ordinary people actually know what an android is and that it has 'apps'.

What it the unique selling point of a Nokia today? It's not design and it's no longer the camera, so what is it? Windows. This should not be the USP!
I would love to have witnessed the discussion to go with windows instead of android: "I know, let's bet everything we have on a phone operating system that will come good in a few years...maybe". What could possibly go wrong?
With nokia's ability to knock out cheap phones, they should have developed a few with android. They would have sold by the bucket load.

I'm sure Nokia and windows phones are perfectly capable and are probably very good in their own right, but they are competing against android and apple and are therefore an endangered technology already.

Let me ask you guys a question:
When do you think talk3G will be as excited by either a Nokia or a windows phone as we have been about an iPhone or android?

[Hands0n]

Let me ask you guys a question:
When do you think talk3G will be as excited by either a Nokia or a windows phone as we have been about an iPhone or android?

I think there would have been a near-orgasm if Nokia had ported Android into their N8, an absolutely awesome bit of classic Nokia hardware with a bloody great Albatross hanging around its neck (Symbian^3).

I do believe that diversity in OS is a good thing, if for no other reason than to prevent complacency by a dominant OS manufacturer. The thing is, Apple did not show any such complacency, they have developed the nuts off iOS and continue to do so, often setting the bar along the way. Likewise, Google have been no slouches in bringing Android from its 1.0 days three years ago to version 4.0 in 2012. The advance of the OS has been mostly matched in the hardware by all of the manufacturers, with Android covering sub-£100 (try £24.99 from T-Mobile!) up to the premium product. Essentially, a phone for all pockets. Staying at the premium end seems to have done Apple no harm.

Meanwhile Nokia are a basket case in the psyche of smartphone buyers, although people keep putting out that Symbian is the world leading OS. Which is fine if you're in the market for Featurephones. And in the face of 2012, the Olympics and all that will entail for smartphone uptake, we have Nokia/Microsoft in the doldrums with mutterings of Tango some time soon, and a 4Q/2012 wait for their "big" delivery. Seriously? Really?

You know, I'm trying real hard not to sound like a Nokia hater, I really am not. But I am a critic and they are giving me absolutely sackfuls of material to be critical of.

Look, here is my open plea to Nokia; Bury your corporate pride, take a big breath, swallow deep and release that N8 with Android, maybe the E7 also for good measure. Just do it the once, like you did with Meego on the N9 (and then ran for cover). I will cover any bet you'd like to place that those two will be a rip-roaring success, especially for the Olympics 2012.

[Ben]

Let me ask you guys a question:
When do you think talk3G will be as excited by either a Nokia or a windows phone as we have been about an iPhone or android?
It's hard to imagine there'll ever be a time when a Nokia is that exciting again. Quite frankly their complete demise seems a lot more likely these days :( I'm sure they must still be selling masses of handsets, but they're not the high margin ones that they need them to be with cheap Android phones from Chinese manufacturers devouring the bottom end. That said, the only way any manufacturer can really get us excited again is to release something that's actually new. The iPhone, love or hate, was new - a rethink of the mobile phone. Perhaps Windows Phone 7 should have been somewhat of a re-imagining, but it just hasn't materialised in that way yet - not in any way that's getting droves of people to buy it, anyway.

Personally I want Nokia to make it back to the fore. Apple, Nokia, and Sony Ericsson are the only handset manufacturers that I've ever bought 'quality' from. You can tell me that Samsung are great and terrific value, or that HTC are miles better than they used to be when they got started with their clunky designs, until you're blue in the face. But when I see all these 'other' brands all I think is cheap cheap cheap.

[hecatae]

I've always been a Sony and Ericsson fan, Sony will be making a big comeback this year since buying out Ericsson, I expect Cybershot, Walkman advertising to bury Microsoft and Nokia's advertising.

Sony have also advised they will no longer make feature phones, and will only make smartphones, Androids with hardware to match and excel Apple will be interesting

[Wilt]

I've always been a Sony and Ericsson fan, Sony will be making a big comeback this year since buying out Ericsson, I expect Cybershot, Walkman advertising to bury Microsoft and Nokia's advertising.

Sony have also advised they will no longer make feature phones, and will only make smartphones, Androids with hardware to match and excel Apple will be interesting

While I would love Sony to come out all guns blazing with some amazing phones, looking at anything they have made since perhaps the ps2 doesn't fill me with confidence that this will happen. They have had to pretty much abandon TVs, portable music has been abandoned to Apple, the PS3, while popular, isn't nearly popular enough considering the traction that the ps2 gave them.

They are far too 'clunky' as an entity - they have all of the component parts to make great products, however none of these parts talk to each other properly, so when there is a product that tries to bring several of the different brands together it invariably ends up shite.

Take a look at the Xperia Play as the latest example - it was supposed to be the playstation phone, however due to what appear to be internal squabbles the playstation brand never even made it onto the phone in any meaningful way. Perhaps this is justified given that the phone appeared to be crap, but I can't shake the feeling that if Apple were making the phone, the two departments would have worked together until they got at least the full suite of psp games working on it. But it just wasn't in the interest of the playstation guys to help out, since it had the potential to cannibalize psp sales.

Maybe this will get better now that SE will be 100% Sony, however taking into account that SE was the only Sony company to ever release any meaningful cross-branded products I'm not so sure that there will be any improvement.

But I would love to be proved wrong - always had a soft spot for SE. I think before they try and work on the cross-branding Sony need to get something other than a mid-range phone out of the door - I'm not sure why but each new SE flagship is always about a year too late specs wise.

Edit: Just realised I am completely off topic - oops!

[hecatae]

Take a look at the Xperia Play as the latest example - it was supposed to be the playstation phone, however due to what appear to be internal squabbles the playstation brand never even made it onto the phone in any meaningful way. Perhaps this is justified given that the phone appeared to be crap, but I can't shake the feeling that if Apple were making the phone, the two departments would have worked together until they got at least the full suite of psp games working on it. But it just wasn't in the interest of the playstation guys to help out, since it had the potential to cannibalize psp sales.

Edit: Just realised I am completely off topic - oops!

Interesting you mention the Xperia Play, this was meant to be the Google Nexus Two, until Google chose Samsung for the Nexus S as Sony Ericsson pulled out 2 weeks before the end of the development stage: http://ausdroid.net/2011/08/16/the-nexus-program-the-basics-of-how-it-works/

This means the Xperia Play was actually designed in 2010, and would have been ready to be announced in October 2010, if Sony Ericsson had not pulled out of development. Instead it was announced in February 2011, and released in March 2011, to not steal sales from the Nexus S.

Unlike Sony, Nokia cant stop selling feature phones, they would disappear into obscurity.

[Hands0n]

Lots and lots of interesting comments. It seems difficult to discuss WP7.5 without drifting into Nokia-land.

Although to be fair to Nokia this OS is not their exclusive territory, there are several other manufacturers such as Samsung, LG, HTC to name but three. So, returning to the topic "Is Windows Phone WP7.5 (Mango) up with iOS and Android?", taking into account the preceding comments the answer appears to be a resounding "No".

That said, I have become particularly sensitive this week to the reviews that professional and non-professionals have been espousing about the various WP7.5 devices, most particular the Nokia as that is "the one to watch". It seems, if the reviewers are to be taken at their word, the whole world is waiting on Nokia to make WP7 a success. Certainly, no other WP7 manufacturer is making any meaningful advertising push to promote the presence of WP7.

But those reviews are rather superficial, dwelling on the aesthetics of the hardware design, the curved glass, the super AMOLED screen, the plastic resin case and so on. Where the OS is touched upon commentary is reserved to the headline aspects of the Metro interface, those floating tiles on the screen. With the sole exception of the Guardian's reviewers, so far as I have read, no other has delved deeper into actually using the WP7.5 OS. Instead, the reviewers seem to have taken the smartphone out of its box, had a fiddle for an hour or so and then written their review article. Totally inadequate.

I know how difficult it is to conduct a review based upon a few minutes handling. The only way to truly understand a product is to live with it for at least a few days, longer preferably. For example, I did this for five weeks with a BlackBerry 9700, the first, only, and last BB I will ever own. By the time I switched back to my iPhone I could feel 100% qualified to pass comment. That is, of course, the most extreme case experience of mine. I'm not suggesting all reviewers be that extreme, but at least run with the device for a few days first.

In reading the Guardian review of WP7.5 as applied to the HTC Titan I felt a great resonance with my own experience of WP7.0 as on the Samsung Omnia 7, reported in January 2011 on Talk3G (here --> https://talk3g.co.uk/showthread.php?8579-Samsung-Omnia-7-Windows-Mobile-7-smartphone-on-Three&highlight=omnia ). Back then I came away with mixed feelings about the OS, although somewhat more positive than otherwise. But a year on, based on the Guardian's most extensive review of the OS I've seen yet, makes me feel that matters are worse rather than improved.

Seriously? Twelve months on and the WP7 OS still has usability issues that indicate fundamental software architecture and design flaws? And that laced with the promise of Tango (Q2/2012) and Apollo (Q4/2012), the latter to "... enable the release of high-end super phones" (citation: http://wmpoweruser.com/leaked-windows-phone-roadmap-gives-us-a-peak-into-the-future/ ).

So what exactly do we have here with WP7.5 Mango then? Its all very well the world holding it's breath for the Nokia Lumia 900 to take on iOS and Android flagships. But we're talking OS here, and it will be the same WP7.5 on the 900 that is on the 800 and its peers from other manufacturers.

By its own words Microsoft is positioning WP7.5 as a mid-range smartphone OS, certainly not on a par with iOS 5 and Android 4.0. Buyers be warned.

[Hands0n]

Just to throw another log onto the fire ... and the reader's comments are worthy of a look too Charlie Kindel is wrong about Why Windows Phone has not taken off (http://wmpoweruser.com/charlie-kindel-is-wrong-about-why-windows-phone-has-not-taken-off/)

[Ben]

Reading that now; just got a couple of paragraphs in and read this, which mirrors my exact feelings about why Android is successful tbh. Yes, I know it has many qualities of its own now, but even so - it's reason for existing seems clear.


The central secret for the success of Android is that it provided a cheap iPhone copy. It is as simple as that, and it is no wonder the most successful Android OEM is Samsung’, who’s TouchWiz UI most closely copies the iPhone. When TouchWiz was on Windows Mobile it also helped sell a huge number of Samsung Omnia 1s and 2s.
Not to mention that Samsung are also mass producers of relatively high-end but low-priced electronics.

[hecatae]

looks like that Jil Sander wp7 has sold out, next cheapest is Acer Allegro, which looks like a HTC Mozart in a cheaper case. Thats what is not impressing, the strict specification of WVGA gives no real room for innovation

[Hands0n]

Mine turned up today, I have it charging on the arm rest next to me :) Let the trial begin ... I'll post my Mango 7.5 findings on a separate thread.