Will BB5 be the death of Nokia?

[Hands0n]

An interesting question occurs to me. Whilst it is undoubted that Nokia are the most popular mobile handset manufacturer, is it reasonable to expect this to be the case going forward when thinking about the means they use to apply the Service Provider (SP) Lock, namely their BB5 technology.

SP Locking benefits only the mobile network operator and is rather meaningless to the manufacturer who really can remain compeltely agnostic to the entire process, if they choose. Nokia, however, have chosen to outwit even the most technically adept at unlocking handsets with their BB5 technology. This has proven uncrackable to date, and Nokia are not releasing the unlock technology to anyone but the network operators.

Is this the future? Or is it a dead end for Nokia? As the handsets reach the end of their contract life the second use market for resale, or even deployment elsewhere in the family is not at all unusual. Removing the SP Lock (Unlocking) has become a high street and market stall practicality. The kits and clips to do this are almost at commodity prices.

So, to create a handset that is unlock-proof may well turn out to be Nokia's folly. Or not?

Vote and cast your opinions below.

[timothythetim]

I don't think it can be quite so clear cut.

Yes it is a pain that the phone is locked, but most (in fact all, I think) networks do allow you unlock it for a smallish fee at the end of the contract.

Also, I know of a lot of phones that are being used second hand that are still locked to their original network. This is due to friends and families all being on the same network and phones being handed down (/up/sideways).

So, no, I don't think it will be the death of second hand handsets, but it still is a pain, especially when some networks (ok, just one) make a complete hash of unlocking BB5 phones.

Man, I was nearly sitting on the fence there

[maxspank]

With networks having the power to 'make or break' handsets, manufacturers like Nokia have to listen to what the networks, and unfortunantley locking is what the networks want.

[Ben]

I voted yes. I believe Nokia's ease of unlocking previously had a lot to do with their success - just like Windows being easy to pirate had a lot to do with it being the number one operating system today by a mile.

However, like Microsoft, Nokia has since started to lock down its handsets - with staggering effectiveness I might ad - and this removal of freedoms may well damage a lot of markets that have built themselves up around Nokia's past easy-going attitudes.

Nokia seems to have caved to the networks on branding and locking while SE managed to create the Walkman mobile phone brand and, through a clever range of phones, get a few desirable ones through that are network untouchable. Bad strategy by Nokia IMHO.

[Hands0n]

Well go on then, vote damn you You fence-sitters are all the same

My question was inspired by " ...... some networks (ok, just one) make a complete hash of unlocking BB5 phones......" syndrome, being a recent victim of "some network" The handset is destined to remain locked to them unless and until someone comes out with a BB5 crack - unlikely in the extreme, it would seem. So the choice is to use it as a PAYG with that network, sell it on eBay or take the easy way out and hit it with a hammer! Bit of a waste of a good 6680 though either way you look at it!

I do rather feel that BB5 will be a right royal pain in the wotsits for anyone who buys a second user locked handset and tries to get it unlocked.

Given that there are easier ways to gain access to sophisticated handsets (i.e. SonyEricsson, Motorola) that are emminently unlockable, one could anticipate people making Nokia a lower priority choice when going to market.

But that could also just be sour grapes on my behalf lol

Edit: I wonder, also, how the implementation of BB5 locking will influence people buying handsets as part of a lifestyle choice. I've predicted the lifestyle market for just over a year now, and I do believe that the market is coming into being. A handset for the occasion? Maybe if the SIM-free market addresses lifestyle then the networks with their outmoded lock it down attitude will have to bend to the Customer requirement, rather than their own self-vested interests. SIM-free prices have to drop, dramatically, to stimulate lifestyle buying - and I believe that it will, in time, once the manufacturers see that they do not have to rely on the mobile network operators quite so much as they believe they have to right now.

[Ben]

SIM-Free is the way to go, folks! Dodgy software and all!

[timothythetim]

Originally Posted by Hands0n

Well go on then, vote damn you You fence-sitters are all the same

Oh alright then, I voted "no", but I don't think that people don't care about using their handset again, I think they just put up with the fact it needs to be the same network, or they get it unlocked for a small fee.

[gorilla]

I've voted no. I would class myself as being a bit clued up about mobiles and I make full use of my mobile. However, my mates see me as some sort of phone freak and a 'know it all'. Now I know that this certainly isn't the case and there are many more knowledgeable people out there (just look at this forum for example) and therefore is the reason I voted no.
If I use my mates as a group of average people then they have a little interest in their phone, make reasonable use of it technology, but, and here's the clincher, if they put in another network's sim card and it didn't work, then that would not bother them. They would either switch networks, or get another phone.

I do believe that the networks are entitled to sim lock their handsets, but the customer should be able to get it unlocked, at reasonable cost, from day one.

Or you could just buy sim free like Ben, or from O2 like I did

[3GScottishUser]

The BB5 solution is much better than the other SIM solution - GLUE!!

[whatleydude]

I've never had a problem with getting unlock codes out of my operator.
Everytime I've upgraded over the past three years i've asked for them and everytime they've given me them. Scot free too.

So.. As much as I can see it being annoying - Vote No.

[mob453]

solution currently sells for £20,000 from dejan kaljevic

[Hands0n]

Two thoughts occur;
1. at £20,000 it is not much of a solution for the high street
2. I do not see any BB5 unlocks being advertised anywhere by independents - if they are it is a best kept secret.

The rumours that surround dejan kaljevic have been parallelled only by those about the Yeti and Alien Abduction. I remain to be convinced that there is a viable independent solution.

[Hands0n]

Seven months have elapsed [almost] and still the rumour mill grinds out the same old chaff - but the reality does not match, the supposed independent BB5 solution has not made its appearance. The legendary Dejan Kaljevic has no discernable product - I'd imagine anyone buying something for £20,000 would be wanting to recoup some of their investment, but nothing appears.

Interesting comments from some of my associates regarding unlocking. While some have had their mobiles unlocked the greater majority have not. Upon questioning they all pretty much have the same response - with getting a new handset at contract renewal time why bother unlocking? Even when changing network a new handset is de' rigeur. And so the old one gets chucked in the bin, handed over to the shop or put in a drawer to be forgotten forever. That, or as a hand-me-down it gets a matching PAYG SIM inserted and given to the kids.

The other mobile manufacturers do not seem to have bothered though, and so Nokia do seem to be out on their own in this respect. Although that does not seem to have done them any particular harm.

[solo12002]

what about these??

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nokia-Unlock-C...QQcmdZViewItem

Can they unlock BB5??

[Hands0n]

Wow! What an intereresting link.

I'm set to wondering if this lad works for 3, somewhere inside the system as his unlock codes seem to be just for 3's handsets. I don't think that this is an independent unlock solution, or there'd be more folk selling it.

His feedback from those who've bought codes from him seems to be legit. At £40 a code it is a worthy alternative to chucking an otherwise good handset into the bin. But, if you've already had three attempts at codes it will require a cable-unlock which will cost another £30 - so a potential total of £70 to get the handset unlocked!

I'd be tempted but for the price, £70 to revive the use of my excellent Nokia 6680 is a bit of a price to pay. I did re-set the product code and get it kitted out with a generic Nokia OS, and it does fly faster, the locked menus are unlocked (i.e. 2G only) and so on. Although now obsolete the Nokia 6680 was a strong handset, lots of function in a nice bit of form. Even the camera was completely acceptable, unusual for Nokia!

But £40 - £70 to get it unlocked ....... tempting it is, I'd probably go for it at £30, definitely at £20.


Edit: No reason to suppose an independent BB5 unlocking solution exists yet ....... WARNING, do not follow advice or links to BB5 calculators, these will render your handset permanently locked to the network unless the counter is reset by a cable solution.